marcionism is more or less islam. interesting the iconoclasm came as a response to islam.
we're told there's a judeo-christian ethic. what a jewish scam! the only judeo-christian theology is the noahide laws, intended to enslave christians.. there IS a christian-muslim ethic. the historic hatred of islam is because maybe islam is an improvement, which undermines christianity in a good way, not the jewish noahide way. but muslims are tolerant. jews and christians have always propered under muslim rule. look at israel for a taste of jewish rule. christian rule is better than that but not so tolerant as islam.
It will take uncommon courage to examine the faith as it should be. The muslim faith suffers the same divisions as all the abrahamics. And not all of them are tolerant, plus they do female circumcision, and you can bet there are awful trauma effects on that as well, that will be handed down the generations. All induced beliefs should be inspected for authenticity. Would you have come to those beliefs without external manipulation or contact with them? What are your individual core values and do they differ from these induced un-interrogated suppositions?
i'm not sure about the un-interrogated suppositions, but you are wrong about islam and female circumsion. there isn't even anything about male circumsion in quran or hadiths. it was just an arab thing. female circumsion is a nasty tribal thing, african, south asia. none in levant. don't blame it on islam!
i converted to islam as the most authentic monotheism. the only thing that frustrates me is the prohibition on pork but kevin barrett argues it is banned because it is the closest thing to human meat and cannibalism is not 'kosher'. ban on alcohol is brilliant. that alone puts islam tops on my list. and monogamy and no sex outside marriage. sex as sacred. so i'm pretty well interrogated :)
Although circumcision of males is an act regarded as commendable in Islam, the scholars have differed in regards to females. Some scholars have regarded the act as commendable, while others regard it as merely permissible. Lately, some have even stated its impermissibility. All these opinions are based upon a number of Prophetic narrations (hadeeths) relating to this subject.
The scholars of Islam who state that circumcision is a commendable act mainly do so due to a hadeeth in which the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, said:
“Circumcision is Sunnah for men and an honorable thing for women.” (Musnad Ahmad)
From this narration, the scholars of Islam understand the encouragement of the Prophet to circumcise both men and women to be a commendable act in the religion, based about known principles of Islamic Jurisprudence.
Those who regard it as merely being something permissible base their opinion on an additional narration, known as the narration of Umm Atiyyah, in which the Prophet came to know of a circumcision being performed upon a female child. He related instruction to the woman performing it saying:
“Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” (Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat)Dou3a Online, link to article:
"We do not know of any hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ordered that his wives or daughters be circumcised,
but it is narrated that he advised a woman who did circumcision in Madeenah as to the proper way of circumcision. "
It was narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, and al-Bayhaqi in al-Shu’ab from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcision in Madeenah, and the Prophet said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
as i said, the authenticity of this hadith is questionable. it is not bukhari. the other hadith you quoted 'female circumsion admirable' is musnad ahmed which is 'weak' transmission also.
there are many questionable hadiths. we must use our reason to discern which are reliable. the questionable ones remain as relics, archeological specimen, not necessarily to be followed.
so it looks like the Prophet did not outlaw male or female circumsion, nor did he approve of either. much like slavery. he didn't get any revelation about *abolishing* these customs but he did not approve of them. frankly, i'm against circumsion of female or male. i'm told it interferes with sex in both cases. sadly, our judeo society has made circumsion of males almost automatic. mothers aren't concerned about their son's sexual pleasure. tell me about it!
re slavery, the Prophet clearly sees it's bad, as believers are called on to free slaves when they sin or just to be nice.
the fact that muslims continued to practice circumsion after conversion is just evidence of rigid customs, male dominated, that continued. i still believe female circumsion is not inherent to islam. there is no commandment and i suspect most muslimas throughout history did not practice it.
the skin fold on the urethra that is like a tiny penis is cut on some babies even in the US, where female circumsion is outlawed, if it is long, for aesthetic reasons. this is a type of circumsion. maybe that's what these two hadiths (there are no others i know of) are referring to.
i know that educated muslims everywhere are against female circumsion.
marcionism is more or less islam. interesting the iconoclasm came as a response to islam.
we're told there's a judeo-christian ethic. what a jewish scam! the only judeo-christian theology is the noahide laws, intended to enslave christians.. there IS a christian-muslim ethic. the historic hatred of islam is because maybe islam is an improvement, which undermines christianity in a good way, not the jewish noahide way. but muslims are tolerant. jews and christians have always propered under muslim rule. look at israel for a taste of jewish rule. christian rule is better than that but not so tolerant as islam.
this is the crux of the issue. https://odysee.com/@Christendumb2:0/Adam-Weishaupt's-Bavarian-Illuminati-Part-2:8
It will take uncommon courage to examine the faith as it should be. The muslim faith suffers the same divisions as all the abrahamics. And not all of them are tolerant, plus they do female circumcision, and you can bet there are awful trauma effects on that as well, that will be handed down the generations. All induced beliefs should be inspected for authenticity. Would you have come to those beliefs without external manipulation or contact with them? What are your individual core values and do they differ from these induced un-interrogated suppositions?
i'm not sure about the un-interrogated suppositions, but you are wrong about islam and female circumsion. there isn't even anything about male circumsion in quran or hadiths. it was just an arab thing. female circumsion is a nasty tribal thing, african, south asia. none in levant. don't blame it on islam!
i converted to islam as the most authentic monotheism. the only thing that frustrates me is the prohibition on pork but kevin barrett argues it is banned because it is the closest thing to human meat and cannibalism is not 'kosher'. ban on alcohol is brilliant. that alone puts islam tops on my list. and monogamy and no sex outside marriage. sex as sacred. so i'm pretty well interrogated :)
then you have to ignore this:
Although circumcision of males is an act regarded as commendable in Islam, the scholars have differed in regards to females. Some scholars have regarded the act as commendable, while others regard it as merely permissible. Lately, some have even stated its impermissibility. All these opinions are based upon a number of Prophetic narrations (hadeeths) relating to this subject.
The scholars of Islam who state that circumcision is a commendable act mainly do so due to a hadeeth in which the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, said:
“Circumcision is Sunnah for men and an honorable thing for women.” (Musnad Ahmad)
From this narration, the scholars of Islam understand the encouragement of the Prophet to circumcise both men and women to be a commendable act in the religion, based about known principles of Islamic Jurisprudence.
Those who regard it as merely being something permissible base their opinion on an additional narration, known as the narration of Umm Atiyyah, in which the Prophet came to know of a circumcision being performed upon a female child. He related instruction to the woman performing it saying:
“Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” (Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat)Dou3a Online, link to article:
https://dou3a.com/s/131918
thanks for educating me on this.
i'm not an expert on this. but you quote the only hadiths dealing with this and they are both weak, questionable: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/82859/is-there-any-saheeh-hadeeth-about-the-circumcision-of-females:
"We do not know of any hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ordered that his wives or daughters be circumcised,
but it is narrated that he advised a woman who did circumcision in Madeenah as to the proper way of circumcision. "
It was narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, and al-Bayhaqi in al-Shu’ab from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcision in Madeenah, and the Prophet said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
as i said, the authenticity of this hadith is questionable. it is not bukhari. the other hadith you quoted 'female circumsion admirable' is musnad ahmed which is 'weak' transmission also.
there are many questionable hadiths. we must use our reason to discern which are reliable. the questionable ones remain as relics, archeological specimen, not necessarily to be followed.
so it looks like the Prophet did not outlaw male or female circumsion, nor did he approve of either. much like slavery. he didn't get any revelation about *abolishing* these customs but he did not approve of them. frankly, i'm against circumsion of female or male. i'm told it interferes with sex in both cases. sadly, our judeo society has made circumsion of males almost automatic. mothers aren't concerned about their son's sexual pleasure. tell me about it!
re slavery, the Prophet clearly sees it's bad, as believers are called on to free slaves when they sin or just to be nice.
the fact that muslims continued to practice circumsion after conversion is just evidence of rigid customs, male dominated, that continued. i still believe female circumsion is not inherent to islam. there is no commandment and i suspect most muslimas throughout history did not practice it.
the skin fold on the urethra that is like a tiny penis is cut on some babies even in the US, where female circumsion is outlawed, if it is long, for aesthetic reasons. this is a type of circumsion. maybe that's what these two hadiths (there are no others i know of) are referring to.
i know that educated muslims everywhere are against female circumsion.
relevant discussion. https://odysee.com/@Christendumb2:0/Adam-Weishaupt's-Bavarian-Illuminati-Part-2:8